Transcript: Ben Williamson and Leigh Jasper

Recorded: May 21, 2025
Duration: 31 minutes
Video recording: Here

Ben:

Hi everyone, Ben here from InvestorHub. I've got Leigh Jasper joining us today. Thanks, Leigh, for coming on board and having a chat.

Leigh:

Right, Ben.

Ben:

We’re just talking about headspace, and the lack of it, being a listed CEO and having so many things to juggle. For people who don't know, maybe give a little background on your exposure to the listed space.

Leigh:

Yeah, I started a company called Aconex back in 2000. First wave SaaS. Built a product for construction and engineering projects to manage and collaborate. We had multiple fundraising rounds, listed in 2014, and three to four years later Oracle acquired us. 

So three to four years as a relatively young CEO on the ASX with all the ups and downs. It’s a good journey, but very different. When you're a private company, if you make a mistake, maybe a few people know. In a public company, everyone knows.

Ben:

Everybody knows. That extra dynamic of it being very public.

Leigh Jasper:

Yeah. The headspace issue - if I didn't structure my time well, I was just running from one thing to the next. And again, you make a mistake, it's public, and you have to deal with things quickly.

We had short sellers - at one point we were the most shorted stock on the ASX. You're dealing with all of that. When things are going well, it's great to be public. When they’re not, it's tough.

Ben:

Almost like an amplifier.

Leigh:

Yeah, it amplifies the ups and the downs. We told everyone, don’t worry about the share price, it’ll settle over time. Then you find yourself checking it daily. I tried not to, but it’s hard. It’s a metric sitting there judging you.

Ben:

And often disconnected from reality.

Leigh:

Completely disconnected. It should correlate over time, but day to day it doesn’t. We’d be doing well but the market thought otherwise, or vice versa. We'd go out with great results, think the market would like it - and it didn’t. That’s just how it is.

Ben:

I remember a CEO with the best results ever, and she said it was like shouting into the void. No feedback loop. She felt like she had no agency over the outcome.

Leigh:

Yeah. In private companies, we knew who our investors were. Public - people invest and divest without us knowing who they are. You're dealing with an unknown investor base. And you guys helped us - not a pitch for InvestorHub - but knowing your investors is a whole other thing.

Ben:

You don’t know why people are in or out of the stock sometimes. It’s a control issue which amplifies the stress. Someone described it to me as “net stress.” Say you’re an employee - 5 out of 10 stress, but no control. The CEO might have 7 stress, but 6 control. Net difference.

Leigh:

Exactly. Less stress but no control can feel worse. And yeah, the Aconex story - we were one of the Australian success stories. Public to private to exit. 

When we listed, there weren’t many listed tech companies. It’s changed now. Some go overseas, like Atlassian. But it’s different now than it was 10 years ago.

Ben:

You're still in the listed space - on the board at SEEK. How's that different to being CEO? Any big contrast?

Leigh:

It’s different. As CEO, you're the focal point - positive or negative. Some heat goes to the chair, and sometimes the board, but mostly it’s the CEO. It’s a lonely role. You can’t always talk to the board. You definitely can’t talk to management about everything. You need support. 

I had mentors and an exec coach. Someone with my back. Because the board doesn’t always have your back. Management may, but you can’t always bring certain issues to them. So it’s a tricky, lonely role. The founder journey is similar, but in public markets it’s amplified. You need to be resilient.

Ben:

Did you have the coach while CEO?

Leigh:

Yes. Our board supported it. Even before listing. One board member pushed for it - said I was a key leverage point and we needed to invest in me growing. The coach had worked with other listed CEOs. Helped me with board relationships, management, etc.

Ben:

For other CEOs - what would you look for in an exec coach? Listed experience?

Leigh:

It’s useful, but not essential. Ideally, they’ve seen larger-scale businesses. For me, my coach had worked with Silicon Valley tech companies, through growth and IPOs. 

That helped. But really, it’s about rapport. They need to understand you, your role, your challenges. It’s a personal as much as a professional relationship.

Ben:

You mentioned shareholder differences. Private companies have static shareholders. Public - very fluid. How did you manage that?

Leigh:

You get a wide range of opinions. One says “go hard on growth,” the next says “maximise profits.” What I learned is you have to be clear on what you’re doing. 

Let shareholders align to your strategy. If you don’t communicate clearly, you get misalignment. By Year 2 or 3, we had better alignment and communication.

Ben:

Right - you get the shareholders you deserve. If you don’t communicate clearly, they won’t understand. Misalignment increases stress.

Leigh:

Yes. And also, don't take it personally. Shareholders are doing their job - trying to maximise returns. I had to learn that. It’s not an attack on you. It’s about the business and communication. As a founder, it’s hard to separate yourself from the company. 

But it’s necessary. One mentor told me, “It’s just a job.” That helped. Because maybe in five years you don’t want the job anymore. Or the board doesn’t want you in the job. It’s still just a job.

Ben:

Success is when it continues without you.

Leigh:

Exactly. Founders who tie their identity to the business - it’s dangerous. If the business fails, it hits your sense of self. You need to separate.

Ben:

What was Aconex’s market cap at IPO?

Leigh:

$300–$400 million. We exited at $1.6 billion. It was a wild ride. We started slow, gained momentum, then the market got ahead of itself. We met our plan, but the market had bigger expectations. Got shorted, went down, came back up. A real rollercoaster. 

Personally, a huge learning experience. And as an investor now, I always share both the pros and cons of listing. It can be great. For example, we did an acquisition in Europe and raised $120 million in a day. No way we could've done that privately. But only if the market's with you. If it’s not, forget it.

Ben:

I describe listing as an annual or biannual benefit, but a potential daily drag. People in our community aren’t always founders, but they still have a lot of their net worth in the company. So when the share price moves, it really hits. Did you feel that?

Leigh:

Yes. First, a shout to secondaries - that’s part of why we started SecondQuarter. 

During the Aconex journey, we took some money off the table. Bought a house. De-risked, but didn’t sell out. You don’t want 100% of your wealth tied to the company you’re building. One investor encouraged us. Said we’d take bigger swings if we were less financially exposed. It made a huge difference.

Australia is behind on this. In the US, you can do planned sell-downs. Here, every time we sold even 1% of our holding, the market had a meltdown. You’re not exiting, just rebalancing, but it gets misread. So I’d tell any founder - de-risk before listing. 

Don’t see the IPO as your exit. Reduce exposure in a structured way beforehand. I wish the Aussie market was more open to founders and directors doing regular, progressive sell-downs.

Ben:

Same applies to directors.

Leigh:

Exactly. And there’s another bizarre thing - if a director has a big shareholding, they’re considered not independent. That’s nuts. I want directors with skin in the game. 

When I joined the SEEK board, I bought shares. I want the company to do well. If it does well, that should be good for me too.

Ben:

You make better decisions when you're aligned to the company outcome, not just collecting a board fee.

Leigh:

Yeah. I get why they don’t want directors over-leveraged, but there’s a balance. No exposure at all is worse. We should encourage some upside alignment.

Ben:

Important point. Also, we forget most listed companies are tiny. Median market cap on the ASX is about $50 million. Lots of small-cap tech, mining, biotech. They’ve got the same stress and pressure as startups, but they’re public.

Leigh:

Yeah, and in private companies you can shape your own narrative. In public markets, that’s harder.

Ben:

And short sellers can say what they want with zero disclosure. That’s a real imbalance.

Leigh:

Yes. We had a case where a short seller published a hit piece. Most of it was inaccurate. We had to respond officially. They didn’t have to explain anything. Eventually they disclosed their position, but only after doing damage. 

It’s asymmetric. We’re required to update the market constantly. They’re not.

Ben:

If you're advising a CEO going through something similar today, what would you tell them?

Leigh:

Try to separate yourself from the company. Short attacks, media criticism - that’s part of the job. You can be philosophical about it. The hardest part isn’t always personal stress, it's the pressure it puts on your team. When the share price drops or there’s negative press, staff feel it. 

So we focused on explaining things. Put context around issues. Explain the strategy. Separate signal from noise.

Also, keep internal communication strong. When we listed, we were super transparent. At town halls, people could ask anything. The day after listing, someone asked, “You’ve never run a public company - why should you be CEO now?” Fair question. I answered it honestly. I’d grown with the business. Every year, I was running a bigger company than I ever had. That transparency built trust.

What changed after listing was what we could share internally. We couldn’t talk about results before they were announced to the market. That was tough. People were used to hearing how we were tracking. We had to explain why we couldn’t share until the ASX had seen it. It was a learning curve for the team. Maturity came with time.

Ben:

It comes back to communication again. You get the team, investors, and outcomes you deserve based on how clearly you communicate.

Leigh:

Exactly.

Ben:

Thanks very much for joining us. I think there's a lot here for people to take away.

Leigh:

Been great. Thanks, Ben. Good to catch up.